🌟 Vitalik and Asia & Ethereum's Future - #75
Vitalik's fireside chat with Dr. Xiao at 2025 Web3 Festival
Photo credit: Web3 Festival
Welcome back to World Ledger. I am Coco.
On the afternoon of April 9, 2025, Dr. Feng Xiao, Chairman of Wanxiang Blockchain and Chairman & CEO of HashKey Group, had a fireside chat with Vitalik Buterin, co-founder of Ethereum, at the main stage of the 2025 Web3 Festival.
The conversation marks the 10th anniversary of the two’s first encounter in China. Some of this information may be shared with the public for the first time. What will Ethereum be like in 10 more years?
Out of curiosity, I pulled up the ETH price chart. While ETH is down 61% from its all-time high in November 2021, it’s up an astonishing 63,559% since August 2015, around the time Vitalik first set foot in China, based on the earliest data available from CoinMarketCap. In the grand scheme of things, ETH’s performance has been remarkably strong.
The chat was conducted in Chinese, and the translation is provided by ChatGPT with some edits. The original Chinese transcript is compiled by Wanxiang Blockchain.
I break down the conversation into six sections:
I. First time to China and learning to speak Chinese
II. Vitalik’s expectation of the Chinese developer community
III. When will we see blockchain’s app moment?
IV. The way for Ethereum L1 to capture the value created by L2s
V. Centralized vs. Decentralized
VI. Will Vitalik consider setting up the Foundation’s Hong Kong Office?
Part I – First time to China and learning to speak Chinese
Xiao Feng: Thank you, everyone! I want to start by sharing a little secret: 2025 marks the 10th anniversary of when I first met Vitalik. We first met in Shanghai in 2015. Sitting here now, having a conversation with him, I feel very emotional. Of course, some of these feelings involve personal matters, so I won’t go into them in this public setting.
I did a quick calculation — Vitalik lived in Shanghai for about three months. I’m especially curious: what impressions do you have of China, of Shanghai, of the Ethereum community in China, and of Chinese Ethereum developers? This is something many Chinese developers are also very eager to hear.
Vitalik Buterin: I remember the first time I came to China was in 2014. I first visited Beijing, then came to Shanghai, Hangzhou, and Shenzhen — I had experiences in all of these places.
Right from the beginning, I could feel that there were already many companies, teams, and developers in China working on various blockchain-related projects. I remember visiting exchanges like OKcoin and seeing that they had even more employees than the largest exchanges in the United States.
Then there were the Bitcoin miners. Between 2013 and 2014, it was the period of transition from FPGA to ASIC mining. I recall going to the outskirts of Shenzhen and seeing some very large factories — they had their own mining rigs. Even back then, I could already sense the tremendous computing power of Chinese miners and how many teams were pushing forward the development of Bitcoin and blockchain communities.
I found that Chinese teams were large, there were many projects, and the companies were very strong — but almost nobody outside of China knew about them. At that time, most of the activity was led by exchanges and miners. I remember that by 2015, you and some other companies had already started doing more meaningful things.
After 2015, I’m very grateful that you had so much confidence in Ethereum from such an early stage. I still remember you invested in the Ethereum Foundation — at that time, we really needed the money, and I could say you saved the foundation.
Since then, I’ve felt that the Chinese community has become more and more complex, with a growing number of different groups emerging, covering areas like protocol research, cryptography research, consensus algorithm research, and more.
Back in 2015, there wasn’t much interesting exchange between Israel and San Francisco, but now, there’s a lot of ongoing research and work in areas like ZK (zero-knowledge proofs) and AI. The quality of the community has truly become very high.
Xiao Feng: Two days ago, I told Vitalik that today’s conversation should be conducted in Chinese. Back in early 2015, when we were together with Vitalik, he couldn’t speak any Chinese at all. But one day, he told me, "I want to learn Chinese."
About a year later, around August or September 2016, Wanxiang Blockchain hosted Shanghai Blockchain Week, and Vitalik was one of the VIP guests. In August, I approached him and said, "Vitalik, if you have a PPT for your speech, please send it to me in advance so I can have it translated into both Chinese and English to help the audience better understand." He replied, "No, I will prepare my slides in Chinese and deliver the speech in Chinese." And that was after just one year.
I really want to ask you: how did you not only learn to speak Chinese so quickly, but even learn to prepare a PPT in Chinese? Because writing a PPT in Chinese is much harder.
I also remember that in May 2016, when we traveled together to New York, San Francisco, and London, there was a time in a New York taxi with you, me, and Shen Bo from Fenbushi Capital. Shen Bo and I were discussing something in Chinese. Before we even finished, you pulled out your phone and asked me, "Is this the word you were talking about?" That’s how you were learning Chinese. I’d still like to hear: how did you manage to learn Chinese so quickly?
Vitalik Buterin: My approach to learning a new language involves a few steps. First, I listen to an audio program that offers many language choices — it has 90 episodes, each about 30 minutes long. The first episode is things like "Hello, I’m in America," or "I’m in China," and the content gets progressively more complex. The program not only talks to you but also prompts you to repeat what’s said and answer questions — that’s how I started.
Chinese characters are harder to learn. At the beginning, I used an app that showed me 20 characters a day, and I had to learn what each character meant. After doing that, the only way to improve further was by talking to people — voice chatting, chatting via messaging apps. I remember when I visited different cities in China, I would look at the names of streets, because they were displayed both in Chinese characters and in pinyin. That way, I could learn a bit more each day from real life.
After one or two years, the only real way is to spend a lot of time in an environment where people are speaking Chinese — then you naturally pick up more and more every day.
Part II – Vitalik’s expectation of the Chinese developer community
Xiao Feng: I also remember that in January 2016, Wanxiang Blockchain and Deloitte co-hosted the first Ethereum hackathon in Shanghai. Over a hundred people flew in from all over the world, mostly from across China.
One of them was a high school student from Italy, who flew in by himself to participate. At the hackathon, he was randomly assigned to a team, and they ended up winning first prize. Afterward, he approached us and asked, "Can I join Wanxiang Blockchain?" — he didn't want to return to Italy. We told him, "At the very least, you need to finish high school and apply to a university, to prove your capability. Of course, you could drop out later if you choose to, but only after you get into a university will we consider accepting you."
A year later, he joined the IOTA project in Europe, and as many people may know, he became a core technical contributor there.
Now, I want to hear your thoughts about the Chinese developer community. Since 2015, 2016, and 2017, Chinese developers have made tremendous contributions to Ethereum in community building, technical development, and market expansion. They've shown a deep passion for Ethereum — not only contributing technically, but truly loving the community.
I remember at the Shanghai Blockchain Week in 2016 hosted by Wanxiang Blockchain, when you went on stage, the reception was even more enthusiastic than today.
On behalf of the Chinese Ethereum community and developers — whether they are currently developing on Ethereum or hoping to in the future — I’d like to ask you: from the Ethereum Foundation’s perspective, what are your expectations for the future development of the Ethereum community in China? And how can developers get more support from the Ethereum Foundation or from you to build more applications on Ethereum?
Vitalik Buterin: Actually, we've already solved a lot of the earlier problems. In terms of accessibility to information, there used to be a lot that communities in China, India, and Latin America didn’t know, but now things have improved greatly.
For example, when I was in Hong Kong for three days recently, I met many people. Even though the events were smaller, everyone had a much deeper understanding of topics like account abstraction and consensus algorithms.
Recently, we organized the Deep Funding competition, open to everyone. Whoever could provide an AI model that answered questions best would receive a reward.
So, what’s still needed? First, definitely more "applications" — although I’m sometimes hesitant about the word "application." Why? Because when you say "application," Facebook and Tencent also say they have "applications." Everyone claims to have applications. If we overemphasize "applications," we lose sight of what’s uniquely interesting and meaningful about our industry.
Instead, I prefer seeing more efforts in specific areas. For example, rather than 100 people all building generic applications, I’d rather see 25 people pushing better DeFi and RWA technology, 25 people building decentralized social media, and 25 people working on information finance, etc. When we focus on specific areas where Ethereum has a unique advantage, the community becomes much more vibrant and interesting.
I believe many teams already have the opportunity to start doing these things — to talk about new topics, attract developers, and build applications. It’s entirely possible today. The Foundation has a lot of support programs and initiatives through local communities. We have already supported many projects. If you look around at the community showcases yesterday and today, you can see many initiatives that we directly or indirectly support.
The Ethereum Foundation doesn’t want to control the Ethereum ecosystem. For us, the best outcome is that we do things today so that tomorrow we won’t need to — allowing the ecosystem to grow on its own.
One more point about Layer 1 (L1) development: the nice thing about building applications is that you can start on your own — you don’t need to know anyone already inside the community. That’s true for many fields.
Currently, we’re putting a lot of effort into the Phase 1 and Phase 2 upgrades. For example, is your L2 (Layer 2) truly decentralized? In the past, many projects and teams liked to claim they were decentralized, open, and the best, just because they had a photo with me. The Foundation doesn’t like these games. We prefer clear, technical criteria: if your project meets certain security and technical standards, you qualify to be among the top L2s. We want a fairer, more open ecosystem that anyone can join.
The same goes for Layer 1 development. Our researchers are working on Beam Chain now, which could be thought of as PoS 2.0. From 2015 to now, there’s been a lot of research into proof of stake (PoS). Today, we know much more than we did ten years ago — about consensus, quantum resistance, economics, and game theory. Because we know so much more, we can now build the best, most sustainable PoS core for Ethereum.
The way we’re doing it is by encouraging many teams globally to participate in Beam Chain research. There are already at least seven Beam Chain teams, and universities like Shanghai Jiao Tong University and others in China are actively participating.
If anyone here is interested in L1 research and development, I highly encourage you to get involved with Beam Chain. One challenge with the current L1 research community is that it’s sometimes hard for newcomers — if you know people inside, it’s easier to participate; if you don’t, even if your skills are excellent, it’s harder.
We’re very aware of this problem and really want to fix it. Beam Chain’s more open development process is designed to attract more new teams to start participating in Ethereum’s next-generation development from scratch.
Part III – When will we see blockchain’s app moment?
Xiao Feng: Based on what you just said, I have three questions I’d like to discuss with you.
The first question: everyone knows there’s a theory called the "blockchain trilemma" — that is, decentralization, security, and performance — you can only optimize for two out of the three; the third will have to be compromised. This phenomenon doesn't just exist in blockchain, but also in areas like exchange rates — it’s essentially a mathematical problem.
How can blockchain ensure decentralization and security while at the same time improving efficiency and scalability? If efficiency, scalability, and performance cannot be significantly improved, then large-scale applications simply won’t be feasible, from both a cost and efficiency perspective. The trilemma can't really be solved on a flat plane.
Until today, I still believe that Ethereum’s layered architecture is the best structure to solve the so-called "blockchain trilemma" so far. Just now, Vitalik mentioned L1 and L2 — and only through such methods can we better address the problem.
If we look at the development of the internet — from computer systems to the internet and now to blockchain — how do we make it more user-friendly and lower the technical barrier for users?
Only when costs are minimized and ease of use is maximized can new high-tech services or products be widely adopted by the masses.
Right now, there’s a question that everyone in our industry is asking: When will the “killer app” for blockchain emerge? That is, an application with massive user adoption.
But in order for large-scale applications to exist, you first have to increase performance, lower costs, and ensure excellent scalability.
The earliest computer systems operated through command lines — DOS systems. Looking back, if computers had stayed in the DOS era, would there have been 10 million people using computers globally? Probably not. It was too difficult and not user-friendly. That’s why later graphical operating systems were invented, which simplified the user experience compared to DOS. As a result, the number of computer and internet users expanded tenfold, even a hundredfold. However, even graphical systems couldn't enable 5 billion people to use the internet.
Today, there are more than 5 billion internet users because of mobile internet apps — apps made it possible to use the internet with just a single finger tap. If we were still using graphical systems, you’d have to sit at a desk, type in a URL, and open a browser. That’s still a complicated process compared to just tapping an app. After apps were invented, the difficulty of accessing the internet dropped dramatically.
This reminds me of a very high-level architecture idea — using layering, with L1 and L2, to solve the blockchain trilemma. But as Vitalik just mentioned, you are now paying more attention to applications for Ethereum. If we really want billions of people to use Ethereum or blockchain, the current barrier is still too high.
My question is: When will we see the "blockchain app moment"? In reality, WeChat is a super app. Running WeChat is extremely complex in the backend, but that complexity is invisible to users. For users, all they need is one finger tap to open WeChat. When will L2 reach the "app moment" of the internet era? Only then will we see 1 or 2 billion people start using Ethereum and blockchain. At that point, I believe killer apps will naturally emerge.
Vitalik Buterin: I don't think it will take very long. In my view, the biggest problems right now are still a few technical issues that haven’t been completely solved. For example, yesterday morning during my speech, I talked about scalability. You might remember that even back in 2015, in my speeches, I talked about four key challenges: First: scalability, second: PoS (Proof of Stake), third: privacy, fourth: security. The issues we talk about always revolve around these four areas.
Now, zero-knowledge proofs (ZK proofs) have made a lot of progress, and scalability has also improved significantly. PoS has been successfully implemented. Beam Chain can further enhance PoS performance. In terms of security, protocol security can be said to cover user account security.
I’ve said many years ago that I was very worried about this problem in blockchain:
Users only had two choices — The first was to store their information themselves, on their computer, phone, or even on paper. This method is highly decentralized; you only rely on yourself. But it’s very complex, and therefore very risky. The second method was to use centralized services for everything. But centralized services also have risks — as we saw with FTX. We can’t completely eliminate centralized services; decentralization remains very important.
We need to find better ways to combine the two: provide users with what they need to do, and avoid forcing them to do unnecessary things. Today, wallets already have options like multi-signature, account abstraction, ZK email, and many other methods.
In my view, the four directions we've been working on since 2015 — about 50–70% of the problems have already been solved.
Now I truly believe: if we can completely solve these technical challenges, the applications will come naturally. Why? Because we already see examples:
· Worldcoin now has 10 million users.
· Sony has built its own L2 on Ethereum.
· Germany’s major Deutsche Bank is also building an L2 on Ethereum.
· In Argentina, Turkey, Southeast Asia, and many other countries, there are many independent users actively using stablecoins, Ether, Bitcoin, DeFi, and so on.
We just need to give developers confidence. If developers start building applications now and succeed, the infrastructure underneath will be ready for them. I’m feeling quite optimistic now. I believe we will achieve it.
Part IV – The way for Ethereum L1 to capture the value created by L2s
Xiao Feng: Vitalik just mentioned that large institutions like Deutsche Bank are already developing Layer 2 solutions on Ethereum. Last December, we also launched HashKey Chain, an Ethereum Layer 2. But during the development process of HashKey Chain, I always felt that compared to building an app, the cost is still very high.
For example, to build a Layer 2 chain, you need at least 20 people working for a full year, because it’s not just about writing the chain itself—you also have to develop browsers, wallets, and more. The technical operational cost for running such a chain each year is roughly around $1 million. Of course, I understand that L2s will never be as cheap, fast, and low-cost as apps.
But imagine if someone else wants to build an L2 from scratch—it would require massive resources and finding 20 technically skilled people.
I have a bold suggestion for you: Is it possible to push more of the "dirty work," "hard work," and "heavy lifting" down to L1? Could L1 offer more services to make L2 even lighter and thinner, so that building an L2 wouldn’t require the heavy resources and manpower that HashKey did? Is this achievable? And when might it happen?
Vitalik Buterin: We are already working on solving this problem. For example, one major cost for L2 today is integration: each L2 needs to provide various services, and every app developer needs stablecoins and other services. To improve this, we can strengthen the connection between L1 and L2. As I mentioned yesterday, one way is to shorten the communication time between L1 and L2—first from one week down to one hour, and then from one hour down to 12 seconds.
Another method is allowing the L2’s EVM to directly read data from L1, so that each L2 wouldn’t have to maintain its own echo of the information but could just pull it from L1.
Also, regarding wallets—if we want to support Account Abstraction and other features, users must be allowed to update their private keys, algorithms, and settings. Currently, every time a user changes something, a transaction needs to be sent on every L2, which is indeed a burden.
However, we have solutions, such as the Key Store concept: The core wallet information could be stored on L1. When a change is needed, it’s updated once on L1, and L2s can read the updated user state directly.
There are many examples like this showing that if we optimize the L1-L2 connection, the workload on L2s can be greatly reduced. This would not only simplify L2 development but would also bring more collaborative applications between L1 and L2.
Xiao Feng: If L1 can shoulder more of the "dirty work," then the problem everyone has been criticizing—that L2 creates a lot of value but L1 doesn’t capture it—might be solved. If L1 offers more services and lightens the burden on L2s, making them lighter, thinner, and easier to use, then naturally, L2s should reward L1 more, because they would need to pay for these services.
This could be a path toward solving the issue of L1 not capturing enough value from L2. Of course, this would be great news if it can be achieved soon, and would definitely be a boost for applications on Ethereum.
Part V – Centralized vs. Decentralized
Also, you just touched on the centralization vs. decentralization topic. Currently, many people are pursuing decentralization just for the sake of it, and using it as a marketing label—claiming to be on Ethereum, claiming to be decentralized. But in reality, on the application layer, although Ethereum’s infrastructure aims for decentralization to ensure security and performance, true full decentralization is often not achievable in actual applications.
For example, you mentioned RWA (Real World Assets). How could RWA ever achieve complete decentralization? Any RWA issuance is almost certainly categorized as a securities issuance, which involves issuers, operators, approvers, and regulators. Thus, there must be semi-centralized or partially centralized aspects involved.
As we integrate blockchain with traditional finance to build new financial infrastructure, we must recognize that finance has strict regulations because of its huge negative externalities.
In blockchain, when we talk about "getting fleeced," that would be regulated in traditional finance because it harms social welfare.
As blockchain and traditional finance continue merging, I believe we’ll see a layered structure emerge: Ethereum L1, as the infrastructure, must remain decentralized—just like the IP protocol in the internet, which is decentralized, open, and permissionless. Blockchain technology must be the same. However, at the application layer, diversity is necessary, and we must avoid over-centralization.
What’s your view on centralization vs. decentralization, especially from the perspective of the application layer?
Vitalik Buterin: At the application layer, if we want to engage more deeply with the real-world economy, we cannot insist on full decentralization and trustless.
Why? Because the real-world economy cannot be entirely proven by cryptographic methods.
Take e-commerce, for example. Suppose I sell you a phone: you send me 0.5 ETH, and then I ship the phone to you. After you receive the phone, the transaction is complete. But how can I cryptographically prove that I actually sent the phone? There’s no perfect cryptographic method for that.
Even if I generate a ZK proof that I handed it to DHL, you still have to trust DHL, and trust that I actually put a phone in the box. Thus, what blockchain can do is reduce the trust assumptions—not eliminate them. Reducing trust assumptions is good because when trust barriers are high, only a few people can participate, leading to inequality and monopoly.
If we reduce trust assumptions, we enable more people to participate, making the system more fair. Blockchain’s smart contracts and asset merging can represent many real-world processes step-by-step. You can hash every step onto the chain: here’s what happened at point A, then B, etc.
Take RWA as an example again: If I issue a stablecoin backed by $1 million in a bank account, I can use ZK proofs to show on-chain that the stablecoin supply matches exactly what's in the bank.
Another example:
Governments are issuing digital IDs. If a government is not trusted, people might fear that it secretly issues fake IDs. But if all IDs are hashed and placed on-chain, people can verify the exact number issued.
There are many such ways to use cryptography and blockchain to reduce trust, increase efficiency, and create fairer economic systems.
Why is this fairer? Because if trust is too concentrated, society becomes monopolized and centralized.
However, full decentralization is only feasible in a few specific domains, like solving math problems. If a smart contract verifies you correctly solved a problem, it can automatically send rewards. But for 99% of real-world economic activities, full decentralization is impossible.
Part VI – Will Vitalik consider setting up an office in Hong Kong for the Foundation?
Xiao Feng: That’s a very important point. All of us building Web3 and blockchain applications must understand: not everything can be solved by decentralization. Of course, where decentralization helps lower costs and increase fairness, we should pursue it.
But once physical-world elements are involved, some level of trust becomes unavoidable.
Large-scale adoption has already driven Ethereum toward a layered architecture, signaling a new stage for blockchain mass adoption. You just mentioned that L2 technology is evolving rapidly.
Since the internet era, we’ve seen a similar trend in applications: Of the top 15 global internet platforms, they’re either American or Chinese.
AI is similar: Other than Americans, only Chinese developers—like through DeepSeek—have demonstrated the ability to develop large AI models. Countries like Japan, India, the EU, and the UK haven't yet demonstrated such capabilities.
I think blockchain will be the same: Globally, most developers will either come from English-speaking regions (mainly North America) or Chinese-speaking regions (mainland China and Greater China). If we aim for massive blockchain applications, the Chinese-speaking and English-speaking developer communities will be key.
Chinese developers are especially strong at the application layer: they have rich experience in development, product management, and platform operations. This comes from the hyper-competitive Chinese internet environment.
Look at crypto exchanges: More than half of the top 10 are operated by Chinese or Chinese-descended teams. The exchanges might offer the same products, but the customer experience is clearly better when built by Chinese teams.
Now that Ethereum has entered the application stage, the question is: How can Ethereum Foundation better tap into the strength of Chinese developers, operators, and users? What strategies are there to encourage deployment and adoption in the Chinese-speaking world?
Vitalik Buterin: Actually, I think most of the work at the application layer isn’t something the Ethereum Foundation should directly undertake. What we should do is provide indirect support.
That’s because we don’t want people to still be fully reliant on the Foundation to operate and grow Ethereum five or ten years from now. We want every community around the world to become stronger on its own, to be empowered, and to be able to build things independently.
Recently, we’ve found that communities in China and some parts of Asia are growing rapidly. The same is happening in Latin America and Africa. So we’ve been communicating a lot with organizations in these communities.
Why don’t we want to do everything ourselves? There are two main reasons. First, if the Ethereum community becomes too centralized, that brings its own set of problems. Second, the Foundation has limited resources. In fact, the Foundation holds less ETH than some whales—we don’t have that much. Others have more.
Besides, the application layer can generate revenue. If you build a good app, you can raise funding, find users, and succeed on your own. That’s something we’ve thought about a lot—if the community can’t do certain things themselves, then L1 becomes an important area.
There are also other areas, like ZK email, account abstraction, and other ZK-based applications. These technologies can solve many trust-related problems at the application and wallet layers. But for each application to develop these technologies themselves is very difficult, requires lots of resources, and often isn’t their specialty. So we started working on those.
Right now, the most important things are:
Community building—giving more developers the opportunity to understand what can be done on Ethereum, why Ethereum exists, how to start building on it, and how L1, L2, ZK, and clients all fit together. Some application scenarios are especially interesting.
Partnerships—we don’t have enough resources or capacity to do all of this globally, so we hope to work more closely with local communities.
We’ve already started some of this, and I think the communication is much better than it was two years ago. If communities have questions or need help from us, we can support them. Hopefully, in a year or two, there will be stronger communities and more developers in every city. The next generation of Ethereum has already begun, and it can keep growing.
Xiao Feng: Vitalik just said that the Foundation doesn’t directly do application-layer development, but focuses on things like ZK and L1, and that’s absolutely right—because the Foundation has its own clearly defined role. Application development needs support from the Foundation and the broader Ethereum community to grow more successfully on Ethereum.
Today’s conference brought together people from Ethereum communities across Asia. We hope to have an annual gathering for Asian Ethereum communities, to exchange ideas on how to promote Ethereum applications and technology in the region. Building on that, we hope that next year all Asian Ethereum communities can come together again for a day to discuss topics that matter to us all.
At the same time, I have two suggestions for the Ethereum Foundation.
First suggestion: I hope the Ethereum Foundation can set up an office in Hong Kong. This would make it easier for developers and communities in Asia to seek funding, consultation, mentorship, and exposure. The purpose of today’s and yesterday’s conference was also to give Ethereum developers and projects more visibility—a chance to connect and showcase their work. I hope the Foundation will seriously consider this.
Second suggestion: I think you, personally, and the Foundation as a whole, should return to mainland China. You did a great job in the past—I remember you went to Shanghai in 2017 and 2018—but then came the pandemic and other disruptions. Now is a great time to restart Ethereum Foundation-led hackathons and workshops in the mainland.
In October this year, we’re holding our 11th annual blockchain summit in Shanghai. You’ve attended seven of the previous ten events. We invite you and other Ethereum organizers—not just Foundation members—to join this year’s summit. And if there’s interest, we’re very eager to bring back Ethereum workshops and hackathons to various cities across the mainland. These workshops and hackathons are not just about events—they help guide people to use Ethereum tech more effectively for a wide range of applications.
So those are my two suggestions.
Vitalik Buterin: Okay. Thank you for the suggestions—and thank you for all the support you’ve given to the Ethereum community, the Foundation, and the broader blockchain ecosystem over so many years.
Xiao Feng: Thank you, everyone. That’s the end of our discussion today. Thanks for being here!
I am Coco Kee, author and host of World Ledger with Coco Kee newsletter and podcast, a rebrand from BlockchainAsia, the Co-founder of Kee Global Advisors, and a dog lover with a Goldendoodle, Lucy.
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